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Jeremy Irons on Shakespeare, The Simpsons, and enjoyable inconsistencies

Jeremy Ironsâ filmography encompasses everything from Disney to David Cronenberg, plus a 1990 Best Actor Oscar win for Reversal Of Fortune, but his first efforts as an actor were on the stage, and one of his initial entryways into the dramatic arts came via Shakespeareâs work. Which explains why he was tapped to host an episode of PBSâ new documentary series Shakespeare Uncovered; Ironsâ instalment, airing February 1, will cover Henry IV and Henry V. In conjunction with the show, Irons spoke to The A.V. Club during the Television Critics Association winter press tour about how he came to participate in the program, which of the villains heâs played is the most Shakespearean, and how his training prepared him to play a bar rag on The Simpsons.
The A.V. Club: What was the initial pitch when you were approached about Shakespeare Uncovered?
Jeremy Irons: Well, it was that we were going to make a documentary about the plays, about the locations, where they were written, the historical occurrences around the period, and where Shakespeare diverges and where he follows history, and why. They said to me, âWeâll do it all in four days for you. Do you want to do it?â And I had the time, and I thought it was a very interesting idea. Because anything that opens up Shakespeare to an audience is good. You know, he has a lot of disadvantages. But heâs often taught badly, and people havenât seen great productions, so they sort of think, âMmm, I donât think so. I think thatâs a bit heavy.â So anything that can make people realize that heâs a fantastic playwright, a fantastic story-writer, and open it up for them in their minds⊠well, it must be a good thing.
AVC: Did you have carte blanche to select which plays you wanted to tackle for your episode, or did they say, âHamletâs off the tableâDavid Tennant gets first pick because he used to host Masterpieceâbut anything else is up for grabsâ?
JI: [Laughs.] No, I was doing Henry IV at the time [for BBC2âs The Hollow Crown], so they thought it would be interesting if I did the one that included the two plays that I was doing.
AVC: What was your first introduction to Shakespeare?
JI: I think it was The Winterâs Tale⊠Well, no, no, no, it wasnât. Iâll tell you what it was: It was reading âround the class in my English lessons at school. And I think perhaps once a week in English, we would choose a bit of a Shakespeare play, and weâll all take characters, and weâd sit at our desks and read them. But it wasnât until I began to see productions at Stratford and⊠I canât actually remember the first Shakespeare I saw, though I think it might have been the Hollow Crown series, with Alan Howard. Peter Brookâs Midsummer Nightâs Dream, I remember seeing. That was pretty early on. And suddenly I realized how theatrical Shakespeare is, how alive, how wonderful it is when itâs opened up by a great director and a great company.
AVC: Was it Shakespeare that made you want to become an actor?
JI: He was one of many. No, I wanted to become an actor because I wanted to become a gypsy. [Laughs.] I wanted to live the gypsy life!
AVC: You mentioned The Winterâs Tale a moment ago. That was the first Shakespeare play you actually performed, correct? At the Old Vic?
JI: The Bristol Old Vic, yeah.
AVC: The Winterâs Tale is one of the lesser-adapted Shakespeare plays when it comes to film and television. Do you have any theories as to why that is?
JI: Hmm. No, I donât. But Iâd actually love to film it. Itâd be very interesting to film, because itâs all about two sorts of people. Itâs about the really buttoned-up and the very loose people, the people who are always touching, which is like I am. The so-called Bohemian people. [Laughs.] Especially now, in this world where weâre so politically correct, and youâre not allowed to hold the hand of a little girl under the age of 14, and youâre not allowed to do this, youâre not allowed to do that, youâre not allowed to smack your children⊠You have to be so correct. And you compare that with the â60s and â70s and that time, with hippies and free love. And to have those two societies rubbing up against each other, which you have in The Winterâs Tale, itâs interesting.
AVC: Watching your episode of Shakespeare Uncovered offers a reminder of just how many of Shakespeare’s lines have filtered into pop culture, such as Christopher Plummer delivering the âdogs of warâ speech in Star Trek VI.Â
JI: [Laughs.] Yep, yep, yep.
AVC: Do you have a favorite example of Shakespeare being adapted for current tastes in popular culture?
JI: Well, I mean, I saw Ralph Fiennesâ Coriolanus, which was a very interesting way to show the play. Ian McKellenâs Richard III. Again, an interesting film. I suppose you could argue The Lion King, in a way. [Laughs.] We always say that he has entered our language with so many of these colorful phrases that we use in life. I suspect that they were phrases that were being used at that time, which he used in his plays. Iâm not sure he necessarily invented them all.
AVC: You mentioned The Lion King, but looking beyond Scar, who would you say is the most Shakespearean villain in your back catalog?
JI: I think Simon in Die Hard With A Vengeance, a man who enjoys creating mayhem and living his own rules. Quite Shakespearean.
AVC: Earlier today, you suggested that you might have a performance of King Lear lurking within you somewhere. Is that something you anticipate letting out anytime soon?
JI: Oh, I donât know. How soon is soon? [Laughs.] In the next 10 years, letâs say. Iâd like to do Iago [in Othello], who is a wonderful character. A smiling villain. Iâve also never done a Don John, in Much Ado [About Nothing], who is a really unhappy man. Iâve always tended to play people who relish playing against the rules.
AVC: Rodrigo Borgia on The Borgias seems to qualify for that category.Â
JI: Oh yes. He is wonderfully bad, isnât he? [Laughs.] Heâs a man who⊠well, one of the great things about Shakespeare is that his characters are inconsistent, and thatâs something I think makes him a writer above most writers, because inconsistency is what we as people are full of. We maybe donât see it in ourselves too often, but we are inconsistent. We think one thing one day and something else another day. We act a certain way one day and another way a second day. And Shakespeare knew that. Now, thatâs very hard to play on film. Itâs very hard to get a writer who will write characters who are inconsistent. They see it as somehow a failure. But when playing the Pontiff, the great thing is, Iâve had time to develop those inconsistencies. The fact that he was no doubt a man of Godâmaybe his faith wavered sometimes, but he was a man of God, as most people were thenâand yet he is able to authorize assassinations and live in a way which we would think, âWell, thatâs not very godly.â But then you look at George W. Bush, and you think, âWell, he was also calling himself a man of God,â but he also sanctioned actions around the worldâbasically in Iranâwhere thousands of innocent civilians were killed because of his decisions. So we all contain a bit of that.
AVC: Many actors admit to taking certain TV and film projects solely to subsidize their theater work. Has that ever been the case for you?
JI: Itâs sort of incidental, really. I mean, you manage a career, you have to pay bills, and⊠sometimes I have done work to subsidize my life. [Laughs.] And to subsidize other works, yes. Less so now. Now Iâm lucky enough to be comfortable enough that I can just choose what I want to do. It sort of doesnât matter too much what Iâm paid for it, and I do what I enjoy doing now. But when I was starting, yes, very much, television would subsidize my theater work.
AVC: In what way did your Shakespearean training prepare you to play a bar rag on The Simpsons?
JI: It taught me the importance of the smallest character, the most insignificant character, who not only has a great history, but who is as involved and as caring and as emotional as the largest character, the most active character. So it taught me not to take the bar rag for granted and to realize that he was, in his soul, Hamlet. Howâs that? [Laughs.]